Ummm - anything from Home Depot or Lumber Liquidators will satisfy the $5/sf price ($4.99/sf is common from these dealers). Quality will always be questionable. Buyer be ware.

A STUPENDOUSLY high-end laminate ($4.50/sf) will give you a better product than a cheaper than cheap $4.99/sf engineered hardwood.

I found some Mohawk engineered laminate called city vogue something online (not box box stores) for 5 something and another store could get for 3 something. Don't have exact numbers w me, the wear layer is 1.75 though. Not sure the quality...

Oops I mean Hardwood

Engineered is hardwood. Do you mean "solid"?

I accidentally put engineered laminate in my last post, I mean engineered hardwood by Mohawk. Would it be something to look at?


I actually purchased quick step envique and I did not end up liking it, the texture was rough and the smell.

I have samples of mannington restoration but some feel very slippery.

OK...your title is for "Engineered Hardwood"....so it sounds like you are fine. Mannington is a decent name...again, you get what you pay for.

Engineered hardwoods have a range of "cheap" that is $2.99 - $5.99/sf. You start getting in to "low-moderate" quality at $7/sf. The good stuff starts around $12 - $15/sf.

Again....you can choose what level you can expect from the price point you can pay. The price you are looking at is ranked as "cheap" or low-end. Please add $2/sf onto the purchase to enter into the "low-moderate" quality range. You will be much happier with the quality.

Yeah I tried looking at laminate first then decided to look into engineered hardwood instead...

I understand. Please be aware that your $5/sf budget is very low for engineered hardwood. The lower the price, the harder it is to keep the wood "happy" and healthy and fully functional for anything beyond 10 years.

Here are couple of 6" engineered wood floors with 1/8" wear layer at $5.29/sqft. We carry total of 6 colors. These are the 2 lighter ones. Hope you like them.
Cicerone Pilsner

Cirerone Lager

The issue with cheaper engineered wood floor isn't the durability of the finish, it's whether it can be refinished in the future rather than being replaced.

Johnson Flooring Co Inc

"The issue with cheaper engineered wood floor isn't the durability of the finish, it's whether it can be refinished in the future rather than being replaced."

Maybe that is true for some people. It is not the case for me. I would not ever consider refinishing a floor in my home. If it was worn out, then I would simply replace it. So for me, it is absolutely the durability of the finish.

Thank you. So what do I look for in the finish to be most durable? I wouldn't be interested in refinishing a floor either.

What wear layer should be good enough then? Urban floors had 1.75mm seems thin.

If refinishing produces a lot of dust and strong smells it may not be something that would be a priority when I buy a floor, at least not needing to refinish more than once.

Actually I think that was Mohawk, Urbans was thinner I think! I don't need a fancy high end floor. Just something light in color that my kids can play on. I wanted to avoid laminate because I know it off gasses more formaldehyde. I know they are compliant but I'm still pretty paranoid. Engineered contains less of it and I prefer the real look and less hollow sound.

I'd like to see 2mm but a careful floor refinisher can probably work with 1.75mm as long as it doesn't have too many highs and lows and the subfloor is relatively flat. The issues are sanding down a high corner to be flush with an adjacent low corner and exposing the next layer of wood and the glue line, or doing the same at a hump in the floor. Newer belt machines make finer cuts but multi disc sanders like the Trio are prone to knocking down high spots in the quest for a flat smooth result. An old timer with a drum machine could do some real damage if they're not careful.

Most of the refinishing industry has moved toward capturing the dust during sanding. In some houses we raise more dust moving the rugs and furniture than we leave from sanding.

There's some disagreement on the best products for site finishing. If your main concern is VOCs and smell, it's likely that a waterborne urethane would be suitable. I find them to be less offensive than latex paint. There are zero VOC oil finishes that either cure from oxygen exposure or with a catalyst, that smell quite a bit like corn oil. I suppose some could term them as smelling disagreeable but that would be the minority. These finishes have some attractive benefits like the ability to touch up scratches without doing the whole floor but they generally require more periodic maintenance.

I would go with 5 inch Kahrs brushed matt finish, you can get it at aroun 5$ a foot..

Mysha can you send me a link to the product you are referring to?

Perhaps it depends on where one lives in terms of refinishing floors versus replacing them.

I live in a high rise and refinishing would be enormously disruptive. There is no place to put furniture and it couldn’t be simply shifted around as it can be with a prefinished flooring. There is only one door so one has to move out for several days as the stein and finish need to set.

I had my first wood floors finished on site but am replacing with engineered wood floors. The finish is far more important than the wear layer to me as well. My neighbors also replace their wood floors rather than refinish because it simply isn’t that cost effective if you need to move everything into storage and then find a place to live for a week while the floors are being done.

I looked up that Kahrs and it stated .5mm wear layer, is that right?

Depending on the Kahrs product. They have a line that has .5 mm and not re-sandable and they have lines that have 2.5mm or up. I am personally looking at Kahrs Sonata line because some dealers online have it at around $5/sqft, probably because it's discontinued, at least it doesn't show up on Kahrs website anymore. I just can't find samples on the 2 colors I am interested in...

Jonnie you should check out local flooring suppliers inventory i am sure you can find a dealer in your area, it's better than online as you can actually see what you are buying, feel the wood and test it how easy it scratches and dents. Below i have some pictures of two recent condominum installs in Downtown Chicago, i would stay away from Mirage as it's expensive and it scratches and dents easily...

"Simply replace it". Sound easy. I work in a fourth generation wood floor business so the ability to refinish a floor is important to me and my customers. I try not to sell anything that can't be refinished at least once. It makes sense economically and environmentally. If you want to spend 3 times as much or more to replace a worn floor, that's your prerogative. Your floor contractor will certainly love you!"

That's fine with me. :-) The mess that refinishing is, is not anything I ever want to have in my home. I will replace if/when necessary.

Most of the refinishing industry has moved toward capturing the dust during sanding. In some houses we raise more dust moving the rugs and furniture than we leave from sanding.

Yeah that sounds great. But it's absolutely not the case in the folks that I know that had their floors refinished in the last couple of years. In all 3 cases, they were told that the dust would be "mostly" captured. Right. It was horrible. Every single surface, everywhere in the home, was covered. And the lingering odors were awful. They each had to literally move out of the house while it was being done. There is no way in hell I would ever even consider it. Not unless there is a major technology change in the process, and a 100% guarantee of no dust and no mess to clean up, and NO SMELL.

Mysha has Mirage quality come down lately? I have some friends who installed Mirage 20 years ago, and their floors look like new, no scratches or dents and they never refinished....

I'm also surprised about the assessment of Mirage floors as it was highly recommended when I was looking for engineered flooring. It's Canadian - not Chinese - and is supposed to have a very durable aluminum oxide finish - which is what I was most concerned about.

I have samples of Mirage right here in my kitchen. Although I could not find a color I liked, I think it's a very good finish, and well made. Maybe overpriced though - you can get the same quality for less money than it costs.

Is aluminum oxide the finish to look for? Any brand recommendations in this price range? (I don't need thick wear layer).

I think mirage was too expensive, but looked very nice.

The advice I received was that aluminum oxide provided the most durable wear layer

I found a Kahrs online in the price range but it says 1 ply... is that an absolute no?

"1 ply"?? You mean "1 strip"? That is just the design - how it is pieced. Look for the wear layer thickness.

Sorry 1 strip. I think it is .6mm...

Kahrs makes pretty good floors. If you found one you liked, it should be fine.

Has an HDF core. Seems expensive for those kind of specs I guess.

I was trying to get less formaldehyde than laminate w the plywood.

Formaldehyde is added when low-grade adhesives are used as binders. You can find the same formaldehyde presentation in engineered hardwood, bamboo and very bad laminate. Yes. Engineered hardwood can have as much or MORE formaldehyde in it than laminate.

At $5/sf, you can have an OUTSTANDING LAMINATE with European E0 rating (almost NO off-gassing....tested by 3 of the toughest labs in the WORLD, etc). Of for the same price, you can purchase an engineered floor that has so much formaldehyde that it makes your nose bleed (just ask Lumber Liquidators about their lawsuits).

Because I've seen the chemical profiles from some of the 'best of the best' European Laminates, I still advocate for them. Europe does NOT allow "formaldehyde" in ANY FORMAT!

The USA, on the other hand, still allows phenol-formaldehyde as a glue additive. That's why we have the luxury of all these "cheap" products from Asia (and elsewhere).

If you want to stay away from formaldehyde (which is impossible BTW....every organic being has formaldehyde...every tree, blade of grass, human skin cell, etc) then you need to look at SOLID hardwood (yep...you can find Character grade short ends white oak for $4.99/sf) OR you look at ANYTHING out of Europe. For your price range, you will need to stick with European laminate or European Vinyl.

Asian engineered hardwoods are NOT the way to go in your price range. I've seen the chemical profiles. Many of them are illegal in the CARB II states.

$5/sf for engineered hardwood is already a risk (quality wise). Add in the need/want for "no formaldehyde" and you are searching for something that could take years to find...if it even exists.

If I had a budget of $5/sf and HAD TO stay away from formaldehyde (or other chemicals) I would look to the top of the line European laminates. They are some of the safest floors on the market. I wouldn't even consider a low-grade engineered hardwood. I've seen too many chemical profiles to know they just won't work for the "no formaldehyde" requirement.

Sj what about Kahrs? They are a European company and their lower end lines are priced around $5/sqft...

Thanks SJ McCarthy! Would the Quick Step from Belgium be good or Mannington Restoration, but that's USA. Would look for the water resistant ones.

Quick Step is from Belgium....so it would be front of the line. Mannington Restoration states it is produced in the USA. If you are concerned about the chemical profile, ask for the documents. They need to have them readily accessible should anyone ask for them.

Kahrs is a hardwood floor manufacturer. The "low end" ones are made with a sheet of hardwood over top of a fibre board click-system. It is "like" laminate but with a layer of hardwood rather than a photograph of hardwood. Kind-of a hybrid product. the air quality/off-gassing would not be an issue. It would NOT be water resistant - at all.

I've seen this method used with low-grade bamboo...and the fiber board will expand MUCH MORE than the bamboo = delamination. Hardwood has a bit more "stretch" to it than bamboo, but I would still be concerned about how the indoor humidity is maintained. Too much of a swing (too dry followed by too damp) could stress a hardwood-over-fiberboard hybrid floor.

McCarthy, what do you think about the ultra low VOC Cali engineered bamboo? The samples are durable.

Sorry SJ, but it is not low grade fiber board. It is plywood. How do I know? I have the Kahr's Canvas collection Bristle color. It is white oak, has a 2.5 mm wear layer and is beautiful. Price is about $5.66 a square foot not including shipping. Here's a link to it online

And here's a picture of mine installed.

cpartist, pretty! Do you have pets or kids?

cpatists that's what I am planning on installing also, only the Sonata collection. Just ordered some samples, and my humidifier is arriving tomorrow, can't wait to see everything set up. Did you ordered yours online?

cpartist, pretty! Do you have pets or kids?

I have a dog and the finish is such that scratches won't show up because it's a lightly wire brushed finish. Plus the finish is a matte finish. We've had workmen walking all over it, tools etc and so far so good.

Did you ordered yours online?

No I ordered through the store my builder works with.

Just like i said, Kahrs, wire brushed, mat finish easy install and very durable... I worked with a lot if enginered flooring and Kahrs is one of my favorite price and durability vise... I would advise you to stay away from bamboo due to way is made, toxic due to the formaldehyde used in gluing it togheter, off gassing for years and so on, read about it and decide for yourself, also needs a lot more time to acclimate to you environment before installed i would say around 3-4 weeks and you might still encounter problems specially if it's floating... Below are recent photos of a job in Chicago, floating installation, carbonized bamboo, this happened in couple weeks after installation but like i said it's up to you, i always advise against bamboo!

Thanks so much everyone. I ended up getting a laminate made in America! :) I have the flooring, but the trim/moldings aren't here yet, can I start installing? I know the moldings get installed last, but it may be that I won't have them for another week. Wanted to install the front room this weekend.

Go for it. There is nothing that DEMANDS trim (from a technical stand point) other than the visual of an expansion gap at every wall.

The only concern would be missing transition strips (t-moldings) through doorways. That's about the only 'concern' I can foresee. Other than that, have fun.

Hey SJ, looks like there are some chips! Is this damaged product?

Yep. That's damage. A small percent is acceptable (5% waste/milling errors/shipping damage). Anything above that amount needs to be relayed to the dealer immediately. Stop the install.