This is one of those threads where a person asks for help in a misguided plan, is confronted with unanimous, strong negatives and then attacks us for being negative, not knowing what we're talking about, being closed minded and not really listening to what she/he has to say. Just wait for the last part.

SJ McCarthy "And you will have renewed your mortgage "

What??

Chess, maybe refinanced?

Well, yes, OP, if you bought the townhouse you can indeed sell anything out of it that you wish.

You might be a little optimistic about any financial gain you might make, though.

This is one of those threads where a person asks for help in a misguided plan, is confronted with unanimous, strong negatives and then attacks us for being negative, not knowing what we're talking about, being closed minded and not really listening to what she/he has to say. Just wait for the last part.

With respect, I think there are many times when this board gives great advice and there are other times when we get too hung up on our personal perspective to actually give real advice.

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Much of this discussion has been about the OP's use of the word "free," and is largely pointless and irrelevant. In theory, and actually in fact, there is no such thing as getting something free when you have spent money to get it. That includes "free shipping" on a purchase or a "buy one get one free" deal. Amazon has yet to really offer free shipping on an item you purchased, but it doesn't matter if you consider it free or included in the price you paid. Your financial position hasn't changed in the least with that knowledge.

We could argue that people would better understand the economics of purchases were they to realize that "buy one, get one free" is really just "purchase price includes a second item at no additional charge." However, the reality is, that it doesn't matter, if there are no savings from buying just one whether you consider the second one free or already paid, changes nothing.

The OP's builder could offer a house as purchase price includes a countertop at no additional charge, or get a free countertop with the purchase of a home, and while one is technically correct it doesn't make any difference in the outcome.

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Nor are opinions on wastefulness really all that helpful. We know nothing about the OP's habits, goals or priorities. I mean if we want to preach at people for the environmental consequences of their actions, I guess there is no way to stop that. But if you are going to start reading someone the riot act because they are filling up landfills, you better be a vegetarian. Because the environmental consequences of meat production far outweigh any other thing we do.

If the OP wants to build a house then replace the stuff with other stuff because even considering the mess, costs and hassle the OP believes it is reasonably valuable, then it is reasonably valuable. It is fair to ask if the OP has really considered those other costs, and has actually gotten estimates, but other claims of cost are simply without basis.

Bry911, I think both meat production and the amount of trash that goes in our landfill every day are both problems worth talking about, and the problems they create are different, not better or worse. Mentioning them is helpful, it raises our awareness of how badly we're trashing this place we have to live on. With all of our brand new this and that, we often forget the kind of impact we make on this planet.

We may not be able to always make the green choice, but there's no point in not trying.

Mentioning them is helpful, it raises our awareness of how badly we're trashing this place we have to live on. With all of our brand new this and that, we often forget the kind of impact we make on this planet.

Who is being wasteful here? The OP who wants to sell items so someone else will use them, or the builder who is inflexible so insists that the OP receives stuff they will not use.

I don't doubt your conviction but I do question your target.

We're getting off topic. Anyway......you could offer these items up for sale on CraigsList or any other many other sites to sell used items - or even give them away. If the items are in good shape (and even sometimes not) someone will want them if it's at a good price. You never know if someone is looking for used carpet to their pet kennels, or a poor family looking to get carpet that is better than what they have - and have put down carpet before. Someone may want to build an outdoor garden and is looking for materials for a fountain or a roof for the chicken coop. You just never know.

Someone may want to break up the granite and use it fill a hole in the driveway.

Not everyone can afford to pay to have these types of things done. They have to find ways and be creative.

jenwen, You are correct. Looking back at my post I was being snarky. And this is not me. After thinking about it, I knew of a person who found kitchen cabinets used through a friend at church and another person found great deals with appliances through FaceBook marketplace. There are man DIY or people who come up with creative ways to get what they want in a way that is not necessarily something I would do. It can be done. Items can be sold and that money used toward something the OP really wants. I apologize for my post. I have no excuse other than to say I am thick in the middle of a reno that is taking longer than I had anticipated. Which is making me a cranky.

~boxer

Nobody's addressed the gorilla in the unwanted granite countertop room: The possibility that someone could get seriously injured in you home trying to remove/re-purpose these tops. Fabricators have very specialized tools for handling, transporting and placing granite tops. These won't just levitate to their future location. Any accident on your property could/will be viewed as your responsibility.

Nobody's addressed the gorilla in the unwanted granite countertop room: The possibility that someone could get seriously injured in you home trying to remove/re-purpose these tops.

Really? That is the gorilla in the room? How in the world do you reason the homeowner is responsible for someone else's negligence or stupidity? I am sorry to be rude but that is an absolutely ridiculous line of reasoning and leads to preposterous conclusions.

Let's start holding potato farmers responsible for the fact that people get fat eating McDonalds french fries.

In terms of liability, if something happens on your property, you may be in a position to be held liable. Sometimes a claim like that is unfounded, but you still have to go through the trouble and expense of defending it. All it takes is the right kind of person who thinks that everything in his life is someone else's fault to make your life miserable. If a trained fabricator comes in and removes them, then you won't have a problem. If someone buys them on craigslist, removes them himself and is hurt, he could decide to make a stink, or he could mess up your cabinets doing it

This was a penny-wise pound-foolish situation from the start, what makes anyone think it's going to end any differently?

Stores like the Habitat for Humanity ReStore wouldn't exist if there wasn't a market.

If someone decides to file a lawsuit against you your homeowners insurance would defend it.

In terms of liability, if something happens on your property, you may be in a position to be held liable.

No you wouldn't! People constantly pass off their misunderstanding of liability as some sort of fact. You are not responsible for someone injuring themselves doing something which a reasonable person would understand has risks. PERIOD! For example, you wouldn't be responsible for someone who comes to your house to remove a countertop being injured while removing the countertop. They assume the risk of injury when they agree to remove the countertop. Whether or not they are professional makes absolutely no difference, you are not responsible for educating people of the risks that they assume.

However, if they are injured by a fall on a faulty stair while removing the countertop, that would be your responsibility. Because they couldn't clearly identify the stair as dangerous, and it is your responsibility to essentially create a safe environment or warn them of any dangers that are not obvious or assumed.

It is a fact that you can pay a filing fee and sue anyone you want to, people press frivolous lawsuits all the time. The homeowner would bear the hassle of making sure it goes away. In no way did I say that the homeowner would have to pay a settlement.

I'll phrase it this way: Nobody's addressed the gorilla in the unwanted granite countertop room: An inexperienced person who tries to remove the countertops could cause injury to himself or damage to the cabinets and the homeowner would be in the position of having to deal with the resultant hassle. Now can anyone say that statement is not true?

It's a risk/expense I'd try to minimize since I'll also be paying for a new set of upgraded countertops that could already be installed if I'd just thought one second about it instead of relying on my own, underdeveloped instincts in the matter. And if a granite fabricator removes the existing tops, expect to be charged for it. I just quoted one removal job for a small kitchen that will run $800.

In no way did I say that the homeowner would have to pay a settlement.

Yes you did... if something happens on your property, you may be in a position to be held liable. What do you think held liable means?

An experienced person who tries to remove the countertops could cause injury to himself or damage to the cabinets and the homeowner would be in the position of having to deal with the resultant hassle. Now can anyone say that statement is not true?

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Certainly advice to have the countertops removed by a professional is valid. In my area that is typically done free when you buy new countertops, although they typically do not guarantee the condition, they usually try to remove them as intact as possible.

However, you chose to go the other way and include a gorilla in the mix...

straining at gnats...

OH LOrdy. If one is in the practice of looking at CraigsList or the other sites, one sees that the items offered are usually already removed and waiting in the garage or some other storage place, possibly on the curb. No one is saying that the person wanting the item has to remove said item. I'd say 90% of items offered are already removed from their original resting places. No liability there. Most of the time, if one gets new countertops, a pro will have already removed them and installed the new ones. Then the owner has the option of keeping them and selling them or asking the pro to take them with him - if he will.

Oh Lordy. If one is in the practice of looking at Craigs List or the other sites, one knows that most of the items offered have already been removed from their original resting spots. Most of the time, the person wanting said items does not need to remove a countertop from the counter, unhook a used dishwasher, or take up unwanted carpet - they are already removed and waiting in the garage or storage shed. Sometimes, all a person needs to do is pick up the item from the curb, if it is offered free.

When I was growing up, my parents were replacing carpet in the living room, dining room, stairs, upper hall and my bedroom all in one brand and lot of carpet. There was some issue with the carpet and the installer spoke with the company and they ended up replacing it. I don't remember what the issue was exactly. It was a lot of high quality carpet. The company resold this carpet as remnants. They did not give it away or throw it away.

There are various issues in play here, one of which is in some areas you can't move into a new house where the floors are meant to be carpeted and they are not. Or you can't move into a house without kitchen counters. (I don't know about new construction but in my area you can move into an existing house as long as it has heat and rudimentary bathroom and kitchen.--Actually you could probably move into a house that didn't have those if you paid cash.)

The other issue is that the builder will either not let you forego purchase and installation of at least the most basic finishes, or if they did, the amount they would refund for not installing these would be pennies on the dollar on what part of the budget these items make up. I know someone who wanted to buy two units in a multi-unit property (not one that had a "raw space" option, and they discussed with the builder that the did not need two entire kitchens, and did not need one of the full bathrooms:

The builder offered them under $10,000 refund for leaving out the kitchen and $2000 for leaving out a bath. Of course they passed on this property because that made no financial sense for them at all.

I don't see where the OP is at fault for trying to get someone to reuse finishes they are removing, I don't think they were given many options>

I think Habitat will come remove some items. Your items are brand new and might fit their criteria. (Sorry if this point was mentioned above.)

bry911

"Yes you did... if something happens on your property, you may be in a position to be held liable. What do you think held liable means?"

Oh good grief. What do you think "may" means???

Hmm, as to whether his calculation is foolish: it really depends on the particular builder, doesn't it? Some will discount for leaving out things like countertops, others will not. If his builder is one of the latter, his base price for the unit is the same with or without basic countertop. If this is the condo that the buyer really wants, then the fact that the total price includes basic counter is accepted. Then, if the buyer is able to upgrade on his own at a savings over the builder's price, he has come out ahead there. If he is then able to sell the unwanted items, further advantage.

This way of looking at it does assume that other builders in the area do business the same way, so that it was unlikely that he could find what he wanted in another development and get a discount for leaving out the basic items he disliked.

Around here, he would have no trouble selling a practically new piece of carpet, laminate or counter on Craigslist or facebook marketplace.

New counter installation often includes removal of old.

Oh good grief. What do you think "may" means???

I am pretty sure it doesn't mean not, so it is just wrong. Period. Find some legal precedent for an owner of real property being liable to a third party for an injury sustained in operation or removal of property owned by the third party.

Liability for injury sustained on your property can be a serious concern, however, many people seem to believe that any injury sustained on your property is going to be your responsibility. Which isn't true. Moreover, people who should know better constantly make statements about liability and insurance coverage that are not true as a scare tactic (which we constantly see here).

If someone just falls at your house and gets injured, then they should get better at walking. If someone trips over a toy at your house and gets injured, then they should get better at looking. If you have a broken step at your house, then you should tell them to avoid it, but if they fall on it anyway and get injured, then they should get better at listening. If, however, you installed a trap door in your floor to catch a pesky roadrunner and they fall in it and get injured, you should get an attorney.

For invitees you have a duty to find and warn others of any uncorrected dangers that are not reasonably obvious. Licensees removes the find requirement, and thus you just have to warn them of any known dangers. Employers must take a few extra steps to provide a reasonably safe work environment.

Someone who is coming to your house to remove countertops that they have purchased are, in fact, removing their property from your premises. They would be held responsible for any damage done to your property during the removal if such damage were reasonably foreseeable (good luck getting that money).

If you are really that concerned, have them sign a release before you sell it. I mean you can print a release of liability letter in 5 minutes and be released from liability, or better yet get it removed by professionals when your new countertops are installed.

I am sorry for the repeated bits but I just want to be thorough.

I know this post has totally gone off on a tangent but can I just say the OP said the townhouse is BUILT. Not being built but DONE. Lots of comments don't apply as a result...

Lordy lordy!

*sips coffee

following

Oh. Borrowing the money. That makes it even better!!!

you could try donating perhaps to Habit for Humanity? tax deduction possibly?

I was going to suggest the same thing. Your chances of finding a buyer for your exact items /your exact dimensions is pretty remote ... and, even if you do, that person will only be willing to pay used prices; however, your chances of a write-off by donating to Habitat or Goodwill are 100%.

Chispa, there is some truth to that in the sense that it's brand new material that was just installed and is now being removed. And the reverse is also true in what chispa says. If we were really that concerned, we wouldn't be building brand new houses using precious resources. Think about it.

Yeah, I was going to say basically the same thing. A person whose real goal is to minimize use of new materials would be doing a rehab instead of a new build.

In most cases I would blame the waste and damage to the world on the inflexible builders and not the buyers! ;-)

I suspect it's more the bank and the need for a final inspection /certificate of occupancy. The bank wants to be sure you have a complete house (right down to the mirrors, it would seem).
How is removing the builder grade new stuff and replacing it with better stuff after the new stuff is installed saving money?

It's not saving money. It's quite an expensive choice: Have builder grade items installed ... pay to rip them out ... install nicer quality items.

Also, if you're talking about a neighborhood build by the same builder, you should be careful not to add so much "nice stuff" that you overbuild for the neighborhood. My daughter bought a house in this condition: The original owner added and added and added "nice stuff", then he lost the house to foreclosure. The house was in disrepair, so she and her husband bought it cheaply, and they like all the upgrades ... but they didn't pay for them and don't expect that years from now anyone else will be willing to pay for those "nice things" that outshine the neighborhood.

On one hand living with stuff you don't like will certainly save a bit of money. However, on the other hand why bother living with stuff you hate just because it saves a bit of money? I would argue that life is too short to live with things that make you unhappy if you have the power to correct them.

Yes, life is short ... and everyone's resources are limited; we have to draw lines, make choices, delay gratification. I'd argue that it's better to live with the ugly laminate for a while and watch the magic of compound interest increase your retirement fund than to find yourself 70 years old and still hauling yourself into work every day, even if you are enjoying that top-notch bathroom when you come home. (General you, no one specific.)

Yes, life is short ... and everyone's resources are limited; we have to draw lines, make choices, delay gratification. I'd argue that it's better to live with the ugly laminate for a while and watch the magic of compound interest increase your retirement fund than to find yourself 70 years old and still hauling yourself into work every day, even if you are enjoying that top-notch bathroom when you come home. (General you, no one specific.)

No one should delay all gratification, everyone should prioritize their money in such a way that they maximize happiness. While it is valid to note the real concern of working when you are in your 70's, it is also valid to note the real concern of living in your 30's. I see a lot of people who didn't plan well and don't have enough savings to retire comfortably, but I see other people who have plenty of savings and nothing else. They both regret their choices...

From a financial perspective finding a house and spending money to make it perfect for you is much better than finding a house you don't love and moving to a place you like a little bit better in 5 years.

ditto what jn said. You don't need those items to get a CO. You can get competitive bids on those items. You do need to find out what the competitive quotes are for those items locally to make sure you're not sre**%&%!!!!!!!!!!! People need to go 'against' production/track builders. ALL they want to do is SR&&% people wanting to build a house. That's their MAIN objective!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The MOST PROFIT they can male///////////////// That's the 'BOTTOM' //...line....period.........
To put as much money in their pockets.......period..........

your chances of a write-off by donating to Habitat or Goodwill are 100%.

I respectfully disagree with Mrs. Pete on this. Yes, you can claim a charitable contribution on your taxes BUT with the new tax law and the increase in the standard deduction for a married couple to $25,000, fewer taxpayers will see any tax benefit from contributions. It really depends on the individual taxpayer's situation.

Also, don't forget that if you were to donate the items you remove, you can only claim their fair market value (what Habitat or Goodwill sells those items for), not what you paid for them. You have to have an appraisal by a qualified appraiser (not the organization you donated the items to) if the fair market value is over $5,000.

Just my late 2 cents. We sell stuff all the time on C list. Including 2 full kitchens and 1 house full of baths. This included granite tops in one.

The first one was just 12 years old and I would have felt really guilty going with a landfill. Asked $200 and had 30 hits in 24 hours. Learned my lesson (should have priced higher) but we got a nice family team with good experience. It was 90's oak and laminate. They did the tear out. They used for their personal house.

Last year we did a much older kitchen/3 bath combo. It was a 1984 house so 33 years old. Had 12 year old granite in kitchen though. Same price I believe. Father/son team did the tear out. They rehab old houses for rental. Fast removal with a small amount of drywall damage. Probably hard to avoid.

We sell good condition furniture all the time. Typically 50 cents on the new dollar. Not bad at all. I guess truly it is "pennies" on the dollar. I do think carpet and vinyl flooring are going to be closer to 10 cents. Laminate though --- I have a partially finished attic in this temp house --- I would be happy to pay 20-30 cents for that.

Everything has a value. Landfilling a new product is a poor economic and environmental decision.

Reduce, Reuse (via C list), Recycle.

I’m sure that there are many people who would love to buy a set of cabinets with their countertops. I’d they don’t get used in a kitchen, they would be wonderful to,have in a garage, workshop or base,ent.

IMO, it is easier to sell a full set of kitchen cabinets with their counter tops of whatever material than it is to sell just the counter tops which may or may not fit or be able to be re-configured to fit the buyer’s cabinets.

@bry wrote

"No one should delay all gratification, everyone should prioritize their money in such a way that they maximize happiness. While it is valid to note the real concern of working when you are in your 70's, it is also valid to note the real concern of living in your 30's. I see a lot of people who didn't plan well and don't have enough savings to retire comfortably, but I see other people who have plenty of savings and nothing else. They both regret their choices...

From a financial perspective finding a house and spending money to make it perfect for you is much better than finding a house you don't love and moving to a place you like a little bit better in 5 years."

Of course that's true in terms of not being so much of a miser that one forgoes normal pleasures of life rather than spend money.

However much of what is spent on for many items is a want rather than a valid need. One's life is not going to be miserable if one doesn't have a kitchen that is functional and attractive albeit "dated". If one is fully funded and making a decision to spend purely discretionary items on a state of the art kitchen versus going to Europe or buying a designer handbag or other discretionary item, then go for it. However, I suspect that many expensive discretionary expenditures are funded by money that would be better spent saving.

If one is miserable living with builder grade carpet or formica counters until they have passed their functional life, one should perhaps examine one's priorities. In the parable of the grasshopper and the ant, I have seen real misery in those senior grasshoppers who are attempting to live on Social Security and these were not minimum wage grasshoppers but grasshoppers who chose to spend their incomes on discretionary items rather than save even a portion of those for the proverbial rainy day or retirement.

@ Helen

Just to be clear, I spend my Fall and Spring teaching people how to be stewards of other people's money. If my students returned with this advice I would fail them on that assignment.

There are certain things that approach absolutes in financial advice, however, never ever, even one time project your value structure onto the person who you are giving advice to.

Were the OP to come to me, as a financial professional, and ask should they replace my new countertops and carpet. My first response wouldn't be financial, it would be, "why do you want to replace new countertops and carpet?" Only then would I advise, and that advice would ALWAYS consider their response and their financial situation. It simply isn't acceptable to give this type of advice otherwise.

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Moreover, I suspect much of the financial advice is based on a fallacy. At this point I have more information to give some of you all financial advice than I do the OP. The age of the counters is irrelevant, and its consideration is a great example of the sunk cost fallacy.

Of course, there is a financial value to deferring expenses, however, would you all have the same advice if the countertops were 15 years old? Replacing a countertop that is brand new, versus replacing a countertop that 15 years old are the same from a financial perspective. So why aren't you over on the kitchen forums ranting at everyone replacing kitchens?

In the end, many people feel like replacing something that is brand new is wasteful so they assuage that guilt by getting some use out of the item, and then replacing it. That is fallacious reasoning. If you are replacing something that is functioning well, then you are making a choice that isn't necessary, whether it is 80 years old or 5 minutes old doesn't matter.

This is one of those things, that people trained to give financial advice are good at spotting, and why often our advice is different than expected. People waste a ridiculous amount of time finishing things just because they started them, or using things just because they bought them. They don't want to be "wasteful," never realizing that the wastefulness occurred when they started the endeavor or purchased something. So they just end up turning a waste of money, into a waste of time and money.

So why aren't you over on the kitchen forums ranting at everyone replacing kitchens?

I do, and some other people do, question replacement of existing kitchens and baths on those forums pretty regularly. I have a relatively poor understanding of finances, as people can probably tell by my vague and general comments on posts that are essentially about financial decisions. However, my lack of understanding has actually made me a poor consumer and very conservative, rather than someone who wastes.

I don't really understand the rationale of what the OP did because I would think that by paying for the standard materials, and then paying for their own upgraded materials that there can't be much difference between just paying for the builder's upgraded materials to begin with. This is an assumption. And, I think if did not like the builder's standard or upgraded materials, I would have found a different builder, if possible.

Specifically regarding the rant on the kitchen forums, I regularly question why someone would replace a kitchen in perfectly good condition because of esthetics, particularly when they were the ones that picked everything out a few years ago.

"there can't be much difference between just paying for the builder's upgraded materials to begin with." This is an assumption.

Actually there can be a LOT of difference. Quite often, the builder "upgrades" are crap, and/or the choices are too limited and unappealing.

And, I think if did not like the builder's standard or upgraded materials, I would have found a different builder, if possible.

I expect most people would, if it were so simple to do.

^Pal, I understand what you are saying about the material selection except there is one glaring issue not addressed: the available choices from the builder at the time of purchase is very limited. Selecting the materials included in the base price makes sense when none of the available choices through the builder are acceptable to the buyer - at any price. In my area you have to go custom to get your own selections from the marketplace. The tract builders have extremely limited choices and going to another tract builder gets you another set of extremely limited choices that aren't any better. Some builders have even moved away from individual selections entirely and now package their choices into group A, B, C. etc. It's the McDonalds of home building. As to the credits: non existent.

I am assuming the OP purchased from a production builder and not a custom builder as the purchase was a TH and not a SFR in an infill lot (for example). In that type of situation, the builder has all the leverage once the buyer has signed the contract to purchase. I don't blame the buyer for selecting the basic package and then customizing to his needs. As to the original question: there are always buyers looking for new, unused materials for their place. The price they pay isn't going to pay for the OP's remodeling, but it does solve the logistics problem for the OP.

I regularly question why someone would replace a kitchen in perfectly good condition because of esthetics, particularly when they were the ones that picked everything out a few years ago.

You are simply projecting what you believe is important onto someone else, and it isn't valid. It is their money they get to decide what is important.

I get a lot of enjoyment out of working on a home, mostly because of the move I have recently made I am focusing more on furniture making, but I still love working on a house. I love planning the transformation of a space and I get incredible amounts of joy from that planning and some from the doing. That is what makes me happy, and it isn't subject to your approval because it doesn't match the things you have decided should make everyone happy.

A large part of our economy is spending on discretionary items, and any of that spending might be thought wasteful by people who disagree with how you spend your money. However, it is your money, your happiness, and your choice.

I live very well, I fly first class whenever I travel anywhere, and I travel a lot. Many people might question that as wasteful, yet with no inheritance and with nothing other than discipline and hard work, I retired from real work in my early 40's. So respectfully, those people can bite me. I work very hard, and I make choices where I want to splurge and where I want to save, moreover I am happy about those choices.

ETA: I personally don't value expensive countertops at all. Although I have bought houses with granite in them, I have never bought anything other than laminates for my own use. I just don't value that stuff. But I understand why someone else might.

It is worthwhile to try and sell all the items you remove. A coworker remodeled his house with new items removed to make way for post purchase upgrades. Everybody is happy.

Congrats to the OP for being smart. The smartest thing you can do in a new build in non custom format is take the basics and on items that can be easily upgraded later. Pay the upgrades that cannot be easily updated as part of your original mortgage.

not easy updates are things like a bump out adding square footage, easy updates are cheap builder grade carpeting.

do the math... upgrading flooring might add $3k to the mortgage paid over 30 years that $3k is more like $5k. after taking possession you can probably spend just $2k and get same updated flooring. Usually a builders upgrade has significant mark ups.

Too many people roll roll all sorts of high margin builder "upgrades" into their mortgage, paying for the Viking stove over 30 years!

Boy bry, you can sure find a reason to argue with any statement made by anybody about anything.

I don't care if they do it, I try to get to the core of why they are doing it. Maybe that's not my business, but on the other hand, unlike you apparently, for many people these sorts of projects are not discretionary income, and they are not necessarily doing it for the joy of doing it, which is a great reason for doing anything, but because of a pressure to conform to something, which is often external. Some people have no idea what they actually like, they are responding to what they are told they should like at any given time.

There was a thread recently posted by someone who built a completely custom house a few years ago. Fast forward a few years, and because of various factors that were present even at that time, they now have nothing but the house. No other assets, no retirement, nothing. And they can't even afford to live in the house and have to rent it out and live in a small apartment. This is not the result of some cataclysmic event that took place after the fact. These were things that were happening before, during and after the building process. Again, this is not my business, strictly, except that the entire thing has been played out on these forums and if people did not want opinions on what they are doing, they would not be posting and asking for opinions on it, they would just be doing it.

Most people are not in the situation that you are in, able to retire prematurely and take on large projects with discretionary income. As for me, no one in here really knows my financial status, it's not really anyone's business. And I could say that I'm independently wealthy when I could be someone on disability in a rent-controlled subsidized studio apartment who just has a reasonably large vocabulary and a rich fantasy life. In any case of course an opinion is going to be overlaid with someone's experience and belief system and that is going to be projected onto other people.

for many people these sorts of projects are not discretionary income, and they are not necessarily doing it for the joy of doing it, which is a great reason for doing anything,

That is absolutely spending discretionary income.

There was a thread recently posted by someone who built a completely custom house a few years ago. Fast forward a few years, and because of various factors that were present even at that time, they now have nothing but the house. No other assets, no retirement, nothing.

THAT IS NOT THIS THREAD!

In this thread, someone has found a way to spend less money, by accepting builder grade finishes and replacing them using a third party.

So can you please tell me how spending less money is a bad financial decision and why the OP should be spending more money? I understand the general advice of saving over spending, in fact, I have made that exact post on these boards many times. However, it doesn't seem to apply here.

The OP is long gone. Now its just an internet argument between the Reverend Doctor Professor and a rich lady.

Now its just an internet argument between the Reverend Doctor Professor and a rich lady.

I do love a bit of snark but who is the reverend? Who is crusading to save the OP from destroying the environment, destroying their cabinets, being sued for an injury, being 70 and still having to work, etc?

I don't understand why every thread has to be a crusade to fix everything perceived wrong with the OP's.

Perhaps I don't mean discretionary, perhaps I mean disposable income. I would not remodel a kitchen for cosmetic purposes only, for example, if I had to borrow any of it. I would spend only disposable income on what is a vanity project. That's my opinion and I am projecting it. But most people do not have the disposable assets to take on large projects. Of course we are ignoring the intangible aspects of enjoyment here, of having a project, of shopping and spending money, of having new stuff. Of course if you read the kitchen or bath forums, many people do not get great joy out of doing any of these because they are overcome with Fear that they are making a Bad "Investment" by picking the "wrong" finishes. At one point houses were not considered investments and were something that underwent depreciation like a car, weren't they?

And, "that is not this thread" So what? You were the one that brought up other forums. I was explaining why I question people's motivations to take on certain projects, in places like the kitchen forum.

I am operating under my own assumption that I do not understand how they are going to come out of this actually spending less money. I understand that that is the intent, I don't believe that it would be less in practice than choosing the upgraded products from the builder. We haven't seen examples of either. but the upgraded finishes that most builders are going to offer are going to be what the majority of homeowners would pick themselves. That's why, after endless agonizing, there are about three different nearly indistinguishable kitchen styles on the Kitchen forum at any give time. It's possible that the OP could be a real outlier in design tastes, but I don't have any evidence one way or the other.