Gritty mix

Reply to: First of all, THANK YOU ALL for replying and trying to help. I'm sorry in being so late to reply to you all, but somehow, the Houzz app stopped sending me notifications when new replies came in. As a side note, I really hate their app and their website. It's so NOT user friendly! Those forums used to be such a joy to browse, and they managed to make it really frustrating. 😤 . Victor, Moosemac, thank you for stopping by! Victor, it's pretty warm in my house, but I'll keep that in mind; Moosemac, I'm glad the "losing leaves" is not a lone incident. You'll understand why later in this post, lol. . Tapla, thank you so much for taking the time to give me such a detailed answer. Which I saved and printed for further reference. Sadly, it wont help the 2 avocados I mentioned originally in this post, because they both gave up and died a couple of weeks after I posted. The nursery claims they probably caught a root fungi, and that I shouldn't have repotted them when they were already fragile. Of course not a word about the crappy water logged soil they specifically told me to use. They also were very skeptical about that weird 5-1-1 soil mix I kept on mentioning. Whatever. . On the positive side, I did, however, receive the 2 new avocado trees my husband got me. One about 2 weeks ago, was a true giant Cold Hardy, almost reaching the top of my 9 feet ceiling, and that I had to top a good foot to make manageable. The other one, a Haas, arrived a week ago. . I couldn't repot the Cold Hardy immediately, I didn't have enough bark left, so it had to wait about 10 days for the bark to get delivered. During that time, it lost almost all it's leaves. Well, at least they can't blame it on the repotting or the 5-1-1... 😬 The Haas still had leaves when I repotted it. We'll see how they do. . It was sheer luck that I decided to check for any answers on Saturday, because I repotted both trees yesterday, and used Tapla's advice right there and then for the big one. I received the bark on Friday, so that was my big project for the week end. It's done, but my already injured back is TRASHED. . I repotted both in 5-1-1, and used the bricks at the bottom trick Tapla kindly gave me for the big one (THANK YOU). I made sure there was a column of soil going straight down the pot, right on the wick. . The smaller one will get nested in a bigger pot with bricks all around it when it goes outside. I didn't have a big enough container to use the bricks trick on it. I will when I next repot it, though. . I used the classic 5-1-1 recipe, 5x bark (repti-bark) 1x perlite, 1x container soil, I added a couple caps of slow release osmocote and 1 Tbsp of garden lime per gallon. I didn't soak the bark, because i simply don't have a container that's big enough to do it, and I had to do everything, on a giant tarp, in the middle of my living room... But I did give the trees a really good drink once repotted, and I will water them a little more often than I normally would for a week or so, to make sure they stay Hydrated. . Sadly, I can't take them out on the deck, yet, because we've been experiencing crazy strong winds for the past week. And it's really not warm enough for avocados anyway. Last frost is later this week, for us, but it's still pretty chilly. . I will keep this post updated with how the (new) trees are doing. As always, I welcome comments and advice, since you are all more experienced than I am. Thank you all again, and God bless. . Atheen

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Reply to: @Atheen - 7a - in Maryland, USA Two things I've learned when it comes to nursery and greenhouse ops: 1) their focus is on the bottom line ($) and not on the long term effects their care practices have on the plant subsequent to the point in time when the plant is sold. The (previously) conventional process of potting plants up to a larger pot (nursery can) before the plant became rootbound to the point where the root/soil mass can be lifted from the pot intact have been mostly discarded because of the cost of added soil, cost of pot, and particularly because of the cost of labor to properly care for nursery crops. This results in the sealing of many plant's fates due to the effects of root congestion; and, the effects of the new 'labor saving' method results in the sale of a very high % of plants that shouldn't even be sold; this because once a plant has been allowed to become that rootbound, the negative effects are permanent, unless a pair of hands at some point gets into the root mass to correct congestion and problem roots. 2) Very few employees of nursery and greenhouse ops have anything resembling a even a reasonably good working knowledge of A) the impact of root congestion on plant health, growth rate, and the plant's ability to defend itself against insect herbivory and disease pathogens, and B) how to correct the root issues and perform a full repot. Currently, and due to labor costs, extremely few nursery ops pot up in a timely manner, and very precious few do anything about trying to correct a plant that has become extremely rootbound. It has become cheaper to destroy the plant than to correct its congested roots. This is why nursery/greenhouse employees look at you like you have a third eye when you start asking questions about high quality grow media and/or performing full repots. It has, unfortunately, become almost a foreign concept for anyone other than managerial staff, and even if the staff understands what the effects of root congestion are and how to eliminate the issue, no action is taken because of the added work's impact on the bottom line. I wish I knew of a way to modify the 511 to make it a little heavier (so planters wouldn't fall with the slightest wind), but I wouldn't know where to begin on how to do that. This problem's resolution is actually quite easy. By a pot considerably larger than you think you'll need, and fill the bottom of the pot with bricks or large rocks. This 'ballast' not only provides added weight to help guard against toppling, it also reduces the volume of grow medium CAPABLE of holding excess (perched) water. For any given soil that supports perched water, the max ht of the perched water column, for that soil, is a constant. IOW, no matter the size or shape of the pot, the max PWT ht will be the same. You can see (below) that 1) roots are reluctant to grow into areas of saturated soil, which leaves roots susceptible to fungi that cause root rot, and 2) when using gravel and other small objects as a "drainage layer", the layer simply raises the PWT to a position higher in the pot than it would be w/o the layer. Obviously, this is highly undesirable. Using large objects like like bricks/rocks as ballast doesn't cause the same problem. The benefit of using ballast lies in the fact that it displaces grow medium that would normally be 100% saturated w/o raising the ht of the PWT. If you have a bucket of water filled to the top, then drop a brick into the bucket, a volume of water equal to the displacement of the brick/ballast will overflow the rim of the bucked. On the other hand, if you have a 10x10 bucket with a drain hole filled with a grow medium that is supporting 4" of perched water soil (400 cu in), and you introduce a 2x4x8 brick at the bottom of that container, it will displace 64 cu" of soil saturated with PW. Since you can line the inside of a 10x10 pot with 4 bricks, leaving a hole in the middle of the arrangement, you can displace 256" of saturated soil with only 4 bricks. If you broke 2 additional bricks in half and added them to the bottom, you will have displaced 384 cu in of the 400 cu in capable of holding PW. The key to the bricks working as a ballast instead of a false bottom lies in the fact that there must be a continuous column of soil from the top of the soil line to the bottom of the pot to act as the wick through which the water is FORCED to flow out of the drain hole. Wicks work well, but items judiciously considered and placed in the pot to serve as ballast work better; and, once the planting is established, the ballast works passively for as long as the planting exists. Use bricks/rocks if you need weight, or an overturned pot/bucket, or empty soda bottles (cap on) if you want to keep things light. I hope your hand gets better. I'm starting to become somewhat burdened by arthritis in my hands and I notice that it can really slow one down. Al

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Reply to: What GardenGal said; plus, air movement is very helpful when it comes to keeping mite populations at acceptable levels, so a fan in the room and plenty of air movement would be a good thing. A thorough spritz of 1 part of 70% rubbing alcohol (isopropyl alcohol - not scented) mixed with 1 - 2 parts two parts of water provides instant knockdown (death) of mites. The trick to its effectiveness is making sure you wet entirely all plant surfaces so there are no mites that do not come into contact with the mist. Misting at 4-day intervals for a couple of weeks should eliminate spider mite populations or reduce them to where they aren't a serious threat to your plants' well being. You can also use the mist prophylactically by spraying once weekly during the driest parts of winter when populations are most likely to increase rapidly. Al

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Reply to: It looks great, and the succulents will LOVE it - so will the spiders, btw. Use a kitchen strainer to screen the fines out of the Turface. Sorry I can't be any more specific than saying use standard mesh size - the same mesh size your mom's strainers were made of. After screening - you can even rinse to remove dust if you wish. When you pot plants, fill the pot part way with mix, then position the plant with one hand while you fill in around the roots with the other hand & a scoop. Use a chopstick or similar to work the soil into the roots of established plantings as you fill. Be sure keep roots from drying out as you work. It's easiest with a dry soil, but an occasional spritz might not be a bad idea until you're proficient enough to work quickly. Of course, there isn't the same urgency with cuttings. Because you didn't screen the Turface, I think you'll benefit by using a wick to rid the soil of all perched water. That was one of the primary focuses when deciding what size particles would be most appropriate. It would be a shame for you to have made all the effort and not get the full benefit of what the soil CAN do for you - you're soo close. ;-) If you write me through GW and give me your addy, I'll send you some started succulents to add to your collection. Al

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Reply to: 1) A uniform particle size of just over 1/10" holds no perched water, so in a perfect world, the particle size would be about 3/32" - 3/16". Usually the grit is prescreened & the fines are screened out of the Turface MVP or Allsport over insect screening. The bark holds water and nutrients. It's water retention is approximately that of the average between Turface and the granite. It's include as filler - it's much less expensive than Turface or granite and lighter. Also, by limiting the bark fraction to 1/3 or less of the medium, the soil will never collapse (structurally) like a peat or bark/peat-based soil would. Your planting will need repotting long before there is even the hint of structural collapse. The small amount of nutrition supplied by the composting process (of the bark) is incidental. 2) Either the 5:1:1 mix or the gritty mix are superb soils for houseplants. I much prefer the gritty mix because it supports little or no perched water. This means the entire soil mass is always well-aerated even when the soil is saturated. The gritty mix holds virtually all its water inside of soil particles and in the tiny spaces where the soil particles touch. There should be very little water in the pore spaces between particles. The 5:1:1 mix, because of its higher % of fine particles, can't be said to offer that kind of aeration. Still, the 5:1:1 mix is far superior to soils that support significant perched water tables and is usually much more durable, seeing that most of the heavy soils are based on smaller organic particulates that break down much faster than pine bark. 3) If you use Turface - ask for Turface MVP or Allsport. If you use calcined DE, look to NAPA Auto Parts store for their floor dry, part #8822. Hopefully, someone will help out with the bark/grit. 4) Once you decide on what fertilizer you'll use and what soil you'll choose, we can talk about liming or using gypsum/Epsom salts for Ca/Mg. 5) If you don't think you can water at least weekly, you'll probably need to use a more water retentive soil. Unfortunately, the price to be exacted for the increase in potential comes in the form of a sacrifice in grower convenience. There really isn't any other way to realistically look at it. 6) There are several fertilizing strategies. I fertilize every time I water when plants are over-wintering indoors. I can't afford the time to do that in the summer when the number of temperate plants I tend more than trebles the number I over-winter, so I fertilize weekly in the summer. More on that when you've made some decisions. To drill holes in clay pots, use a spear point drill. Sometimes they're called spade drills or 3-point drills. You can buy them at most big box stores of hardwares. Make sure you cool the tool:object interface with water as you drill to significantly extend the useful life of the tool. They are far superior to masonry bits & not too expensive - much faster too, and you can use them on vitrified pots as well. Copy/paste this addy to your browser: http://m2.sourcingmap.com/smapimg/en/n/11c/16mm-dia-tip-spear-point-drill-bit-for-marble-tile-143963n.jpg Al

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Reply to: That will be fun, for sure! A good free-draining mix, lots of water and fertilizer, and regular pruning makes growing avocados stress-free and really quite easy, even if you have to bring your tree indoors for the Winter. Josh

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Reply to: Nice trees! I haven't seen any sign of bloom, and I've read that it might take 20 years...and might require a secondary tree to pollinate. As for fertilization, I use a generous amount of Osmocote in the container, and I fertilize with Foliage Pro once a week when I fertilize my citrus. I use a fast-draining mix and lots of water, so perhaps that's why salts have never been an issue. Josh

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Reply to: Tcleigh, the most important thing when repotting/barerooting an avocado is to keep it watered in the days following, especially in the gritty mix! Very well hydrated, perhaps even sitting in a driptray. When I started to do that, my avocado stopped losing leaves at repotting time. I'll update soon. Josh

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Reply to: Turface weighs 35 lbs/cu ft, granite about 50, and pine/fir bark about 10. Since you use them in equal volume a cu ft weighs the average of the three, or about 32 lbs. There are about 7.5 gallons in a cu ft, so it weighs about 4.25 lbs per gallon or a shade over 1 lb/qt, so 44 qts of dry gritty mix would weigh about 50 lbs. FWIW, the gritty mix when saturated weighs about 25% more than a saturated MG or other peat based soil. It's difficult to perceive what might have caused the problem last year - there are just too many variables. I have some hellishly large pots with the gritty mix in them. Those too heavy to carry about, I usually lift them onto a nursery cart/wagon & pull them where I want them - like to store them. If they're REALLY big, like larger than 25 gallons, I use a plank and roll them (like you would roll a barrel on it's bottom edge) up the plank onto the cart. Some, I use a hand truck to move around. I use the gritty mix for figs, but they are so vigorous in their roots, and really NEED repotting so often, that the 5:1:1 mix would also suit them fine. In most cases, to optimize the plant's vitality, figs should go no longer than 2 years between repots. Root congestion very quickly takes a toll on them. If you decide to use the gritty mix, you can find coarse perlite at hydroponics shops in 4 cu ft bags. You can use it in place of the granite on a volume for volume basis, but DO screen it. Best luck, B. Al

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Reply to: Err on the side of caution, I'd say. Both Ohio and I use a lighter dose of Osmocote, and then fertilize with a liquid throughout the season. If needed, you can always add more. Josh

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Reply to: Vgtar: I am sticking to my original answer: when making your potting mix from scratch, add one U.S. tablespoon of Osmocote to one U.S. gallon of your mix. If you use Osmocote Plus 15-9-12 on indoor houseplants it will last about 6 months. If you are using it on fast growing outdoor plants in high summer temperatures, it will last about 3-4 months. After that, add some to the top of your container according to the directions on the fertilizer package. This is actually a low, safe dose. If you want more than minimum growth in the summer, you should also use a soluble fertilizer regularly according to package directions. I think the # symbol is used for pounds (U.S.) by some on this forum. I have also seen people use it for gallons (U.S., volume). These are not standard uses, just some of the many shortcuts forum regulars use.

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Reply to: Garden Lime should be the right stuff. You want the Calcium in it, along with the Magnesium. Just be sure you're not buying Hydrated Lime. Josh

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Reply to: Hey, Jamey! I hope it was my video you watched :-) The 5-1-1 that I make in the video is 5 parts fir bark (pine is even better). 1 Part coarse Perlite. 1 Part Potting Mix (Ocean Forest). 1 Tablespoon Dolomitic Lime PER Gallon of mix. 1 Tablespoon of Oscomote 4-month slow release in the 19-6-12 formula. ______________________________________________ You can make the original 5-1-1 with just bark, perlite, and moss (and Lime, of course). Most potting mixes are peat moss based, and so you can substitute potting mix for the moss. It works as a binding ingredient to regulate moisture retention throughout the mix. Since you have the moss, just use the moss. If you have questions, just ask :-) Josh

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Reply to: "How do you know when to water then?" It does take a little getting used to. Here's a good hint: If you don't screen your material, you could have a little perched water in the bottom of the container. If you add a wick and allow it to dangle below your container for a minute or two after you water, it will drain this water. If you DO screen, you won't have any perched water, but the wick can still be employed as a 'tell'. IOW, if the wick feels damp - no need to water. If it's dry - water. This will get you through the transition period until you get used to the characteristics of the soil. You'll be able to tell by weight, too, with a little practice.

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Reply to: Turface is calcined (fired at high temps) clay that is heated to the melting point until it is ceramic-like. It has 14 acres of surface area per pound and tremendous internal porosity. The size of the particles is large enough that it will hold almost no water in macro-pores (none if you screen it) yet it has very good water retention because of it's internal porosity. That it's clay and has a huge surface area means it has lots of attachment sites to hold nutrients, too. We're mostly concerned with it's ability to hold water. Crushed granite in 'grower' size is large enough to eliminate perched water and holds no water internally (it's nonporous). It holds only what adheres to its surface. Its purpose in the soil is to balance Turface's water retention. Calcined DE is a suitable substitute for Turface, but I still like Turface because of its lower pH @ 6.0 - 6.2 compared to 7.0 for the DE. You can leave the bark component at 1/3 of the total volume & +/- the Turface and grit to give you the water retention you want. As noted above: 3 parts bark 4 parts Turface 2 parts grit will give you a soil that holds LOTS of water w/o it occupying valuable macro-pores in the soil. A mix of 3 parts bark 2 parts Turface 4 parts grit will give you a soil that retains much less water and which might be more suited to plants that don't tolerate wet feet. It's soo easily adapted to suit individual plants - just an extra handful of this or that will tailor the soil to fit your needs. The smallness (1/3) of the bark component adds to the durability of the soil while still offering about the same water/nutrient retention as the average between Turface and grit. Even if the soil is pressed into use long enough that the bark breaks down, the soil will not collapse like other soils with peat or bark as their base. The soil has been given a considerable amount of thought. I've been growing in it for more than 12 years - maybe 15 years, I'm not sure. I'll never use a peat-based soil again, especially for long-term plantings like houseplants. It allows you to water freely at every watering and virtually eliminates salt build-up. Good aeration is assured for much longer than you should ever have a plant in the same soil. So what's not to like? ;o) Pine & fir bark are interchangeable. I use fir bark because I don't mint the extra couple of bucks to get a product that's pre-screened to the right size. You want a fresh bark product (uncomposted) for the gritty soil mix, but a partially composted bark is fine for the 5:1:1, pine bark fines:peat:perlite soil if you choose that. The 5:1:1 will remain usable at least 4X as long as a peat based soil, applications being equal. Al

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Reply to: Gritty mix screening sieve, 2mm,5mm,7mm. and mask. Something else I found recently, it's a pond basket for plants - Works well for larger quantities of materials, 12x12x12 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000VXEI3G?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00 Rob

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