123jonesie

Comparing two dramatically different bids for new construction.

Jonesie
8 years ago

We are getting ready to start a construction on a new home. We have gotten two very different bids from a pair of highly respected home builders in our area. We have done our homework on them, asking local banks, suppliers and customers about previous business dealings with them. We sat with both and had initial an consultation where we fired away questions. Both have passed muster with flying colors. Both are Certified Master Builders. The difference in the bids for constructing our home is right at $66,000. The high bidder is a full custom builder with a reputation for very high quality and does about 20-25 projects/yr. The other is a custom / spec home builder, who has done some great custom projects in the past and has a reputation for quality and value/sqft. He does 60-70 projects/yr.

For that big of a price gap there has to be quality differences, but I've been going over the line items and don't seem them. What are some of the ways this guy is cutting costs without sacrificing quality? Or are there material differences I really need to inquire about before moving forward?

Comments (27)

  • PRO
    Lampert Dias Architects, Inc.
    8 years ago
    Sit down with the low bid contractor and go through each item line by line......take a look at several of his projects and talk to his clients about whether they are happy with the results and the follow up with any warranty issues......if he still sounds good than hire him.
    Jonesie thanked Lampert Dias Architects, Inc.
  • Kris Mays
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Two words: Change orders. Please be very careful not to go with the cheapest bid because it's the cheapest bid. GEt everything in writing and check out license, bond and insurance with state governing body.

    Jonesie thanked Kris Mays
  • PRO
    3rd story
    8 years ago

    They are probably both wrong and definitely not the same product ...get a third bid before you proceed.

  • Jonesie
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    A good example brought to my attention is the price and quality difference between lumber grades. The high bid builder specified in his bid what will be used, the low bidder did not. That's not to say the low guy will use #3 lumber for framing, but I'll be sure to ask before signing anything. The problem with evaluating the quality of the "hidden" elements of the house for someone without a construction background (like myself) is simply knowing what questions to ask about material grade/quality used. But so far everything discussed has been in writing and his license and insurance check out.

  • charleee
    8 years ago

    Go to the high bidder and ask him why his price is so high. It could be materials...such as marble instead of laminate, etc. But it could also be labor. Do they both use union labor? Or is one hiring the Homey Depot type labor, who may be skilled and good at what he/she does, but isn't paid union wages.

  • shirlpp
    8 years ago

    In addition - They should have a customer reference database. Ask both of them for some references, call the references and see if you can visit their homes. You can then ask them about any issues with the builder.

    Also, there is a difference between: OSB and Plywood.... Kitchen Cabinet materials.......2x4 vs 2x6 construction.....the insulation materials..... windows....wood flooring vs laminate...etc..etc.

  • PRO
    JAN MOYER
    8 years ago

    What percentage does the 66k represent of the quoted total home price? It could be a million small things, or some bigger things. Anything from quality of the subs used, to beams, to the lumber, to the type of insulation, to allowances for kitchens and baths, siding, windows/brand and more. As they both do quite a few projects a year, perhaps talk to some folks living in products created by both builders and better would be a few on site visits. If you're building a 500k empty nester, the difference is a substantial one. If a four bedroom, four and a half bath 1.5 to 2 million dollar dwelling , (area of the country accounted for etc).....? A much different thing indeed. Particularly when you consider a decently done master bath can hit 66k in a heartbeat.

  • Jonesie
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    The bids were $377K and $443K.

  • PRO
    JAN MOYER
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Okay..... a more substantial difference indeed relative to 377k!! And worth the continuing inquiries regarding what the difference will buy. Over the "forever" or not period you are planning to be in the home....ten years, fifteen, twenty or whatever, how do you feel regarding the $$ difference and your comfort zone if more quality were implied/achieved in the difference?. Consider also the area in which you are building and the value of nearby homes recently built of comparable size, and does resale price tend to rise or fall on recently built construction? The 66k may be huge on a shorter term stay, and far "less" or even unimportant if it's a forever home and you love your result. Consider as well......decorating, rugs, window treatments, lighting et al, landscaping both hard and soft...... It's never JUST the "build", is it?

  • teamaltese
    8 years ago
    Ask both builders to take you to see their work in progress. You'll get a better feel for quality.
  • User
    8 years ago

    IF you paid for full service design work on the front end to develop a set of written specs to give to the builders, then your architect should be evaluating the bids to aid you with understanding the differences. If the builders are handing you the specs instead of the other way around, then you have no hope of being able to compare if the quotes are apples to apples. And the answer probably lies in the lower bidder counting on change orders to make up the difference. And then some.

  • shirlpp
    8 years ago

    Hey - Jonesie, just curious, did you get the higher bid first and did the lower bidder ask what the quote was from the higher bidder?

  • PRO
    Lampert Dias Architects, Inc.
    8 years ago

    We usually bid our projects to 3 or 4 equally qualified contractors who we know and trust. As the Architects, we do a spread sheet comparison of each bidder to make sure that they have included everything and are bidding the same quality. These contractors don't always bid in the same order. Sometimes one is higher than the other and vica versa......When the bids are close, we let our Clients choose who they would rather work with based on the contractor that they feel most comfortable with, and than we sit down with that contractor and work on getting the numbers to where we want them to be......We may modify some of the specifications slightly to get the numbers to work.

    Jonesie thanked Lampert Dias Architects, Inc.
  • Jonesie
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    To answer previous questions, we did receive the high bid first but have not shared it with the low bidder. Also, we have close friends who built using the builder who is our current low bidder. They have been in the house since Spring of 2013. They are very happy with the end result and recommended him to us. A girl who works at the bank in town also raved about her house built by our low bidder and recommended him as well. Both said that his post-build customer service and response time to any issues was great (including covering an A/C unit repair issue he was not responsible for). I do not personally know anyone who has used our high bidder, but I have been through one of his completed builds and one under construction. Both houses looked great.

  • PRO
    Lampert Dias Architects, Inc.
    8 years ago

    It sounds like you should choose the low bidder........and save money.

  • Jonesie
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Also it is in a gated community with guidelines for minimum house size and home design/appearance, so property values are protected. Our house design is just under 3,300 sqft - 4bd, 3bth, formal dining, large kit w/walk in pantry, 3 car garage.

  • PRO
    Lampert Dias Architects, Inc.
    8 years ago

    Very interesting......In Southern California where I am , 3,300 square feet for a new house would cost at least $250 to $300 per square foot. So your house here would cost $825,000 to $990,000...............Where are you located.....?

  • PRO
    Gray & Walter, Ltd.
    8 years ago

    I would send the plans out to another GC for a third bid. Are they both union, insured, licensed? Did you ask for proof? That's a big expense. The low bidder is cutting something for sure or the higher bidder is just more expensive. Find out if they are using subs. The less expensive GC may be doing their own carpentry etc, that can save money. Unless they are apples to apples and can prove it I wouldn't use the low bidder. Are they both offering a warranty? Are both offering a guarantee of completion? Are you setting the schedule with penalties if not done on time etc?

  • Jonesie
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    I'm in Texas.

  • Kivi
    8 years ago

    Both of those quotes seem incredibly low for a 3300q ft house. Astonishing really, compared to where I am ( more than double of your prices). At any rate, as others have pointed out I can't help but wonder if the two have really priced the same things. How detailed were your specs? Also, it is a possibility that the higher priced builder simply works to a higher standard and as such makes no apology for the higher price associated with the care he puts into it.

  • shirlpp
    8 years ago

    Hey, Jonesie, I think that you are headed in the right direction. You've done your homework as you've said, and gotten real feedback from someone who has been in their home for a while. If the higher bidder cannot break down his costs and help you understand, what is what, I'd consider the lower bidder, after getting a third quote.

    For the folks who are saying that the price is too low...Newsflash - prices are different for homes all over the United States and CA has some of the highest in the country - just in case you did not know that.......Seriously.

  • PRO
    Cure Design Group
    8 years ago

    We have found that most often, the discrepancy in pricing doesn't come down to quality of work if they are both certified and insured...it comes down to the line item allowances for the quality of finishes they are spec-ing out...I would make sure that both line item lists are comparable and you are getting the same quality in terms of products, building materials AND finish materials....the low bidder may come in low at the start but add on a lot more throughout and the higher bidder already includes everything...do they know they are bidding against each other?

  • Jonesie
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Thank you everyone for your comments and advice. It has helped with this process. After going to the low bidder with a detailed list of follow-up questions, an apples to apples comparison has been made easier by having him price out some of the things the high bidder had listed (certain window brand heat pump brand/ size etc.) A few questions for impartial commenters that I didn't want to ask the build: Is 15lb felt on a roof with a 8/12 pitch adequate, or does it need to be 30lb? Also, one builder builder builder bid two 3-ton 18 SEER A/C unit, the other bid one 3-ton, one 1.5-ton 14 SEER A/C units. Would both choices be adequate for a 3,300sqft home with 12ft ceilings in common areas and 10ft ceilings in bedrooms or is the bid kinda skimping on equipment for reduced cost? Texas is brutal in the summer and I don't want to be installing equipment that may not be up to the task.

  • PRO
    Brickwood Builders, Inc.
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Probably should have an independent hvac company opine on that. There is a huge difference in 14 and 18 seer -in both performance and cost. I am in NC, a much different climate, and we would generally see at least two 2 ton systems and most people here go with 14 seer because of price diff. We don't have the brutal heat here though.

  • beseaside
    8 years ago

    We live on the SC coast - similarly hot weather. 9' ceiling on lower level, 8' on upper with an open 2 story living area. We had 2 heat pumps for a 3000 sf house in about the same sizes. The smaller unit handled the upstairs bedrooms (about 1000sf). We also had a dehumidifier as a part of the system. The roof had foam insulation - which was added about 5 years after we built - that dropped our electric bill by $100 per month. A second larger unit would probably help. Did you have an HVAC engineer look at your specs? Might prove helpful.

  • Ed(Edwina) and Stephen Ci
    6 years ago

    Welp, it has been 2 years- can you tell us your outcome and quality of chosen builder?? Please.